Turbo fuel issue

Renault & Alpine General Discussion

Moderators: eastlmark, phildini, BIG_MVS, Alpineandy, Test Moderator

User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:59 pm

Hi all

Been trying to get to the bottom of my GTA dying after running for about 30mins. After much testing, the rear pump starts to squeal like it's dry then the car the car splutters and stalls. Car won't run properly again until it's cooled down.

So far I've cleaned out the tank, replaced the front pump, front filter (which was full of muck hence why I washed the tank out) and fuel regulator.

It had a new rear (and front) pump and filter about 4yrs ago. The rear pump fitted at the time is the uprated Walbro unit.

Thanks in advance!
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive
User avatar
User

pgoldsmith

Rank

Club Member

Club Member
Posts

962

Joined

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:14 pm

Location

West Moors, Dorset


Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby pgoldsmith » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:29 pm

20200111_142438.jpg

If you had issues with muck in the fuel tank and the rear filter is 4 yrs old, then I'd replace it.
The rear filter is KL57 and is a shared part with Porsche and not too expensive. I can dig out the cross reference part numbers if you need them.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
GTA Turbo 1991 - Stratos blue
User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:35 pm

Found an old thread with part numbers so just about to order. Can't understand why it only happens when it gets up to temp tho. Even if I don't drive the car and let it warm up on the drive the same thing happens. Starts fine and runs well when cold.

Hoping this is correct to order: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Knecht-Fuel-Filter-Metal-Type-Porsche-944-928-924-911-Targa-993-964-Service/232583975200
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive
User avatar
User

pgoldsmith

Rank

Club Member

Club Member
Posts

962

Joined

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:14 pm

Location

West Moors, Dorset


Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby pgoldsmith » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:50 pm

Umm, slighty different porschr code to the one I have which is 928.110.147.05 Mahle KL22

I recall having to reuse the old brass connectors from the existing filter.
GTA Turbo 1991 - Stratos blue
User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:40 pm

The thread stated either the KL21 or 22. I'll order the 22! Thank you
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive
User avatar
User

mettersl

Rank

Club Member

Club Member
Posts

1907

Joined

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:46 pm

Location

Saffron Walden- North Essex


Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby mettersl » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:59 am

I believe there is a small reservoir between the two pumps, it could be the flow rate from the front pipe is insufficient to refill the reservoir. you can always do a flow check...how long to fill a bag of fluid. I bought some empty drip bags to do this and not have open petrol to spill i the garage...ebay is a good source.
One thing to check for is there is a bottom of the fuel tank strainer still there on some cars- hard to get to through, and on my atmo the front to rear metal fuel pipes were blocked or partially blocked...flushing through brake cleaner(and air line pressure behind it) cleaned them up for me.
Different symptoms on an Atmo, but could be the same cause.
User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:18 am

Rear filter changed for the KL22 which was the correct one but still having the same problem. I don't have the luxury of anything to clean the fuel lines out. Another rear Walbro pump ordered, where is the reservoir that's been mentioned? Thanks
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive
User avatar
User

darrenbiggs

Rank

Non Member

Posts

1469

Joined

Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:03 pm

Location

Horley - Nr Gatwick


Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby darrenbiggs » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:45 pm

Might be of use - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3217
I'm just here for the gasoline.
User avatar
User

mettersl

Rank

Club Member

Club Member
Posts

1907

Joined

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:46 pm

Location

Saffron Walden- North Essex


Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby mettersl » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:52 am

if it's the rear pump thats starving over time, its must be the front filter , the front pump or the fuel lines connecting them....looks like I was wrong about the fuel reservoir at the back...that's the fuel filter you have changed.
The parts book is confusing, here are the two images, as you can see there are many potential blocked pipes, I think the outlets from the tank would be where I would start and they are easily accessible.
page 13 is the pumps (includes atmo version on the RHS), page 19 is a rhd GTA turbo. You can see a strainer filter shown (18) around the flow/return distribution block...that could be blocked too, but either way it sounds like a fuel system clean out will be needed.

2020-01-20 (1).png

2020-01-20.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
User

paulrob100

Rank

Non Member

Posts

380

Joined

Sat May 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Location

Nottingham


Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby paulrob100 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:08 pm

The fuel system on the GTA turbo looks complicated but is actually quite simple.

At the front of the car there is a high volume low pressure pump & an inline filter. I bought a filter from Amazon for about £8. I used a Fram G12-1. The filter is situated on a crossmember in front of the pedals. It should be replaced every 30,000 miles.
This pump feeds an auxiliary tank near the rear pump. The rear high pressure pump draws from this tank via a filter with screw fittings. This is available from Euro car parts. The one I got was a Mann 503330039. From memory it was about £15. It fits a Porsche 928. The rear pump supplies the fuel rails on the engine.

Because of the high pressure that the system uses (3bar) it is necessary to have fuel return pipework to send any excess fuel back to the tank.

Incidentally, I also fitted a Walbro pump. Overhauling the system made a huge difference to my car.
La Plastique Fantastique :GTA
User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:25 pm

Thank you gents. The front has already been apart, tank out, pump & filter replaced. Pipes looked ok at the bottom of the tank.

Seems what I replaced on the rear at the weekend is jointly referred to as the rear filter or reservoir.

I'll replace the Walbro rear pump again (on order). What I don't understand is why it only happens when the car is up to temperature. The rear pump squeals because I presume it's running dry, how would a slightly blocked return line cause the inlet to have problems?
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive
User avatar
User

paulrob100

Rank

Non Member

Posts

380

Joined

Sat May 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Location

Nottingham


Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby paulrob100 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:18 pm

Just a thought !
Have you checked the pressure regulator ? Maybe its stuck & is returning the fuel to the Aux tank
La Plastique Fantastique :GTA
User avatar
User

mettersl

Rank

Club Member

Club Member
Posts

1907

Joined

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:46 pm

Location

Saffron Walden- North Essex


Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby mettersl » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:41 am

It may not be the return line, it could be the feed line. There is a strainer shown in the rear file system and the front to rear pipe may be restricted.
If the fuel pressure regulator is retuning too much, I suspect the rear pump can outstrip the front pump and starve itself...seems a possibility.
Sadly its check everything until you find it.
I had similar issues with my Atmo that had sat for 20 years.
User avatar
User

patch

Rank

Non Member

Posts

100

Joined

Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:43 pm

Location

Essex


Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Turbo fuel issue

Postby patch » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm

The fuel pressure regulator was one of the first things I replaced (after much searching!) after reading that it could have a hole in the diaphragm which could change with heat, that made sense but changing it made no difference. I'll have to work back from the rear pump if it's replacement doesn't cure the fault and see what I find.
1987 GTA V6 Turbo
Daily ride 530D M Sport Plus X Drive


  • Advertisement

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | Renault' and 'Alpine' are trademarks of Renault S.A.S. or its subsidiaries and are used with kind permission of Renault France
cron